Totemic Consideraions

[Mates-with-Mothers]

We're not *officially* a pack, yet, but some of us are spending Background points to the Pack's totem -- trouble is: which totem will it be?
Ideas? Suggestions?
Stabbing Bone Gnawers?

Current Totem Points: 6
(Eight, assuming Holiday is accepted as-is)

[Runs-In-Shadows]

All of the usual Tribe totems are available, plus Fox, Coyote, Grandfather Thunder... I'll pull up a list.

[Runs-In-Shadows]

Garou Totems:
You do not have to be part of the Tribe a Totem is affiliated with to follow that Totem.

Falcon [Silver Fangs]
Grandfather Thunder [Shadow Lords]
Pegasus [Black Furies]
Stag [Fianna]
Bear
Boar
Fenris [Get of Fenris]
Griffin [Red Talons]
Rat [Bone Gnawers]
Wendigo [Wendigo]
Cockroach [Glass Walkers] [Possibly Weaver-Tainted]
Owl [Silent Striders]
Raven
Uktena [Uktena]
Unicorn [Children of Gaia]
Coyote
Cuckoo
Fox
Whippoorwill [Black Spiral Dancers] [Wyrm-Tainted]

[Mates-with-Mothers]

I was actually looking at The People a little bit.
They look fun, and combat - focused, like most of the pack to be

[Runs-In-Shadows]

From the Player's Guide?
I'll look into that. It'll probably come up in-game, anyhow.

[Dapper_Bear]

Player's Guide to the Garou, page 138.

Great index of totems

The People is really interesting but might require more travel than the storyteller is willing.

I definitely think this group is lining up for a totem of war to knock on our door.

[Runs-In-Shadows]

Consider those Totem bans very, very carefully.

[PossiblyInsane]

As a female, Snatches-Food would have absolutely no problem with selecting Pegasus. Nope. Although if she makes her save against unhelpful impulses, she might take issue with the ban from practical experience as someone milking the behavior encouraged by the ban for all it's worth.

[krellen]

Black-Fur is unhealthily inclined towards Pegasus, for fairly obvious reasons. As far as he's concerned, being accepted by Pegasus is a vital step towards becoming a true Fury.

[Mates-with-Mothers]

How about Coyote? =p

(I'm not a fan of Pegasus' ban. It doesn't seem too bad on the surface, but stretch it to its logical extreme and it's crippling)

[PossiblyInsane]

Actually, given that all of us have at least some proficiency with sneaking and some of us have social manipulation skills, Coyote is not a bad idea. Mind you, the effective ban (get blamed for everything) would be more of a downside to some of us (Garou with actual self respect and concern for social standing) than others. Given that half our Totem pool comes from the purebred unsubtle Ahroun, we'd have to come up with a pretty convincing argument.

Pegasus' ban could definitely be crippling, but there are a few ways available to us to alleviate it.
1. As we have a young female Garou, we can at least prevent enactments of the ban that would be actively harmful to us by having said female give a contradictory method of aiding her. Although for that to work, depending on how much slack Pegasus feels like giving us (see point 4), that female may have to be outside the pack and merely be allied to it, no big deal for a Silent Strider.

2. When the ban would be troublesome, we have characters adept enough at manipulation to stretch the meaning of the word 'aid' into something more convenient for the pack.

3. We have a very Purebred son of a Black Fury in the pack, so hopefully Pegasus will give us some leeway if our intentions our good.

4. Most importantly, the spirit of the ban trumps the letter of the ban. How crippling the ban is depends entirely on how much Pegasus feels like being an ass.

[PossiblyInsane]

Looking through, the totem that best fits Snatches-Food is either Cuckoo or Coyote

[krellen]

"Unsubtle" is relative. I point out that, among Garou, Black-Fur effectively has both Charisma and Manipulation 5.  He's just an alpha wolf, and not big on book learning or deception.

Also, I'm outright vetoing any totem that brings suspicion or dishonour to the pack. Black-Fur would absolutely not accept the patronage of such a spirit; his breeding, pride, and goal would never approve of such a thing.

[PossiblyInsane]

Fair enough

[krellen]

To narrow down the list above, I think these totems might be acceptable to all members of the pack, based on what folks have already said here:
Falcon [Silver Fangs]
Stag [Fianna]
Boar
Rat [Bone Gnawers]
Wendigo [Wendigo]
Owl [Silent Striders]
Raven

Given that list, are there any preferences?

(Explanation of eliminations: Grandfather Thunder, Bear, Uktena, Coyote, Cuckoo, and Fox all bear taints of suspicion. Pegasus and Unicorn have essentially the same ban, Cockroach is simply useless to this pack, Fenris would harm Black-Fur's attempts to be a Fury, Griffin wouldn't accept Dan or Kekoa, and Whippoorwill is a Wyrm-spirit.)

[PossiblyInsane]

Thoughts on the listed Totems:

Falcon: Could work, but given Falcon's prioritization of Honor, Dan and Snatches-Food would be unlikely to get along too well with him barring a concentrated effort on reforming their respective characters.

Stag: Given our lack of Fianna or other Fae relations, a bit out of the blue. Lesser but similar problems with Honor as Falcon

Boar: A decent choice if we can't settle on anything else. We all seem to be quite hearty scrappers, after all.

Rat: Good fit for 'Gnawer Dan, decent fit for Snatches-Food, great if we plan on rubbing shoulders with Ratkin. Not sure how the two Ahroun would feel about it.

Wendigo: Ambivalent.

Owl: Good fit for Snatches-Food, useful traits all around. Not sure how 'Gnawer Dan would feel about it, and another totem may be a better fit for the two Ahroun.

Raven: Ambivalent. Raven's ban is (from what we have seen so far) not a significant obstacle to all characters so far except Dark Waters.

[krellen]

Because Black-Fur prefers Hispo as a war-form, Rat's bonus biting ability would fit him fairly well.

Didn't notice Dark Water had Resources, so that probably takes Raven out.

Only problem with Wendigo is that Rage is a double-edged sword, and Snatches-Food probably doesn't want a bunch of Rage shoved down her throat.

So it looks like Boar or Rat might be best, though we haven't really heard from Dark Waters much yet.

[PossiblyInsane]

By the looks of things then, Owl would be Snatches-Food's first choice that would likely get shot down for various reasons unless she can somehow convince everyone including the Bone-Gnawer to go along with it. Second choice would be Rat, who has aspects that could appeal to everyone if the Ahrouns don't object on basis of status/smell. Boar is a third choice on the basis that there isn't anything particularly objectionable about him, unless any of us feel a particular fondness for pork.

[Mates-with-Mothers]

In order of which  like them, and I think would be useful to the Pack:
Rat
Owl
Raven
Boar
Stag

EDIT:
Yeah, I missed the second page. I think we're mostly looks at Rat or Boar, now?
Again, I prefer Rat, especially with Bitey Black-fur and Dan in the Pack., might be some issue with our Silent Strider friend, but she *is* a Ragabash.
Dan is, for the most part, ambivalent on the whole Rat/Owl conflict. Owl would, however, let us demolish buildings and cause some collateral damage without angering our totem.

We haven't heard much from Holiday yet, no, but Rat *is* a War-totem, so an Auhron (Even if he is the least fighty Ahuron ever) might not be *too* opposed.

EDit 2:
Y'know what? I've talked myself into it.
I'm gunna throw in my two votes at Owl.

[Dapper_Bear]

I've been reviewing and reviewing and reviewing the totem lists.

Owl is actually a great fit with Uktena gifts.  I wouldn't mind +3 dice when I use shroud.  But it's an unwise gift for us to take for the Sept of the Green.  There are a lot of Gnawers in the sept, and it puts Dan into conflict with his tribe.

Kekoa is Uktena first and foremost, and ahroun second.  He fights to win and was pretty ruthlessly trained to scout before destroying.  He would be uncomfortable going back to Hawaii if he was associated with rat and board considering the environmental impact those species have had on his islands.  Accepting one of those two would mean he trusts the pack a lot more than he does now.

I really like the idea of taking one of the Black Furies associated totems. It plays well with Black-Fur's story.  

So as a dark horse candidate what about panther?

Viewable here: 

http://www.arsimagica.net/~eccles/roleplaying/werewolf/totems/war.html

[Dapper_Bear]

We should totally charm the Racoon spirit into being our totem.

[Runs-In-Shadows]

The totem Raccoon is an Incarna; i.e. the Raccoon, Raccoon-Who-Is-All-Raccoons, The First Raccoon.

The spirit at the doors is a raccoon, with a small "r".

[Dapper_Bear]

The totem Raccoon is an Incarna; i.e. the Raccoon, Raccoon-Who-Is-All-Raccoons, The First Raccoon.

The spirit at the doors is a raccoon, with a small "r".

Well yeah.  But I meant it could send in a good word with it's greater aspect.

[Runs-In-Shadows]

Totally.

FEED THE RACCOON!

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